Building Killer Sales Teams: Coaching, Culture & Closing

Dennis Ayotte 0:03
Oh, okay, awesome. Alrighty, here we go. All

Dennis Ayotte 0:08
right, everybody, welcome to talk of the trades. We've got a special guest in studio today. I think this is our first in studio guest, right? Okay, cool. We have Rob McCain joining us. So welcome to the show, Rob. Thanks, guys. Rob is runs his own consulting company now, McCann sales consulting, formerly sales manager at window world, Texas. So big fans of window world around here and the bombas for sure. We were just over chatting with Martin the other day because he's getting a podcast kicked off that's right here. Yeah, for you, watch out. Yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 0:44
But more importantly, I just found this out about you got your first hole in one not too long Halloween, so it might have been okay. That's awesome. So did you take the ball? Did you frame it up? Did you I didn't. It's a mouth bag, really. Yeah, I should have maybe I'll do that. Yeah, you got to date it. You got to sign it. So that's like a video of me dancing around, acting foolish. Okay, so awesome. That's great. Yeah, I've been playing golf seriously for the past five years, and I don't think I've even sniffed the hole on the par 346,

Dennis Ayotte 1:16
years. Yeah, so, Aaron, you got any hole in once? No, no, I played putt, putt once, okay,

Aaron Watters 1:25
top stroke, or pop stroke, or whatever the tiger was placed. Oh, yeah. I felt like on our golf trip, I had a lot that were right there at the par three. I felt like I was hitting some darts, and then I four putter. I need to start hitting it in from the tee. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think the closest I ever got is one time at Bracken ridge. I hit one on a par three. Landed on the green I walk up, and it was on a, like a pin placement from like, a week ago, whatever. You could still see the outline. And so I was like, damn. Just, you know, weaker too just a little too late. Yeah, it's the closest I've gotten so well. Thanks for joining us today, Rob. We want to just kind of kick off and, you know, talk a little bit about your kind of origin story, how you kind of got in the business, you know, any kind of early learning curves and things that you maybe learned along the way. Man, that's a load of questions. Yeah, a lot of history, right? So my history wasn't really sales, so my dad was a cop, okay, so I wanted to be a cop or an FBI agent, right? Yeah, went to Florida State, graduated with a degree in criminology, probation, parole officer and a correctional officer, and I worked for the potter County Sheriff's Department at Amarillo. I thought I wanted to be a federal law enforcement officer, yeah, and did that for about five years good living, and started having kids. And then I realized making $19,000 a year was not the best career choice. Probably right. So anyway, got into kind of a second phase of my career, which is retail. Okay? So I got into management with some big stores, like Target, office, depot, yeah, things like that. Did about 10 years with that. I realized at that point you're working holidays, weekends, all the hours and just not conducted for a good family environment. So got my first taste in sales, selling advertising for prime time newspapers. Okay, that is, your guys are young

Rob McCann 3:16
by like Nacogdoches Road, really, all the little daily newspapers that, right? Yeah, and they printed all the papers right there and sold advertising for them. It's how I got into sales, like, in the early by 2000 Yeah, 99 2000 so then I realized, wow, money's pretty good here. I like sales. And it was really, it's interesting how you both careers really kind of overlapped, yeah, helped each other out a little bit, right? Because in law enforcement, you learn a lot about human behavior, yeah, how to read people. And it's kind of how interesting how transition into sales, right? Kind of weird thing, you know? Yeah, my minor was in coaching. So good to coach people. So did that for a while, and got into sales and never looked back. So been sales now for 25 years, and I've done all kinds of sales. So I've done a call center, business to business, business, business, consumer, you name it. I've done it so I love it, and it's kind of my niche is sales, sales training. So early on, in the early 2000s I got on with Wells Fargo used to be world savings. They got bought by Wachovia. That was the mortgage industry. So I was selling basically mortgages refis over the phone. Yeah, that's tough. Yeah. That really hold my listening skills, yeah. So I started on the phones there, and then became a district manager, became a regional manager within Wells Fargo. We're the first call center in within wells, Fargo company, to actually do a billion dollars in refinances. Wow. We all know what happened in 2008 Yeah, every day we'd go to go to the building, and our card, you know, the key card, green light, yeah. One day it turned red. Oh, wow. Yeah. So and. Anyway, that 2008 we all got laid off and started my second career in sales, which was insurance, independent insurance agent. Sold a lot of supplemental insurance, you know, Aflac, that kind of stuff. Yeah, won some awards. They really well open up a bunch of accounts and really hone my sales skills there as well. Yeah, and in 2016 became a sales manager with Martin bomba at window world, San Antonio, okay, didn't know anything about Windows, nothing, Martin, I don't anything. Were you sure you want me? He goes. I know you can build sales teams and you're good at sales. Come on, nice. Yeah. Got on with him in the first probably three months, 90 days, just learned a product I knew nothing about product, okay, which was good for my own knowledge, right? But that's not why. What made me successful, what made me successful was we built a great sales team. We went from doing, you know, 5 million to over $20 million that's awesome.

Dennis Ayotte 5:56
How do you in six years?

Dennis Ayotte 5:58
How do you, I guess, be successful in doing like sales over the phone versus face to face sales. Because when we work with, you know, different service companies, some of them had inside sales teams, right? And they're, you know, they don't get the luxury of seeing somebody face to face, getting some of those social cues. Seems like you got a lot of experience there, and then you've also had experience like face to face. So, you know, for other sales, people like listening, what are some of the nuances there? And, like, some tips you know, to be successful, yeah?

Rob McCann 6:28
Well, you know, like you mentioned listening, so there's active listening versus passive listening. This is one of the kind of the courses I teach in my company now, yeah, because even face to face, you've got to ask the right questions, and you've got to responses based on the responses. That allows you to dig deeper and ask better questions. You're just digging deeper and deeper. But over the phone is tough, especially in that environment, yeah, because here's how the phone call started. Hi, you guys suck. I'm leaving. And so you to turn that whole thing around, right? And then a lot of times, you know, you have 60, 70% close ratio. You've done a heck of a thing when you're turning that customer around, yeah. So first thing you got to do is empathize, you know, totally get on their level, right, and say, I understand if I'm hearing you correctly. Why is it that you wanted to leave or get a payoff request, right? And just kind of get, take off the gas, off that fire, right, right? Get them talking a one on one, and fine. Then once you calm them down, because we found out was they were sitting there with their broker and they were being coached by their broker what to say, right? So that was tough. You're up against two people, right? Yeah. So you had to, kind of like, acknowledge that, you know, and ask that question, is your, is your? Is your broker with you? Is you know you trust near you, or you've got recent advice, and a lot of times, broker would be in the background saying, Yeah, this is what I need to do. And just listen, listen to my customer. Yeah. So you're up against it really. So you had to really ask a lot of questions. And I, you know, how is it you came to this decision? What are you going through? You listen to all kinds of things, right? The tone of their voice, the rhythm of their voice, they're breathing, if they're angry, if they're doing kind of acting like this, right, with their defensive Yeah? Verbally, you can tell you can sense that. So it really made you a really good listener.

Dennis Ayotte 8:09
Yeah? So then transitioning to selling windows, is that just a cakewalk for you because you're not getting the same kind of tone?

Rob McCann 8:17
It was definitely easier, yeah? But it's less transactional, more emotional relationship in person, right? Because you're going to people's homes, and we all know that's their castle, that's the center of emotion. So you've got to really take a well rounded approach, not just transactional. So it's there's a lot to it.

Dennis Ayotte 8:37
So what were some of the things you would do you know, when you know you're going to the home, and how would you prep, like your sales guys and yourself as you kind of

Dennis Ayotte 8:47
approach that situation?

Rob McCann 8:49
Well, first thing is, you know, you got to establish rapport. And I trained these guys and said, Listen, when does rapport begin? It begins when the appointment setter talks to homeowner. Yeah, that's when it really starts. Because if they're setting you up for success, that's wonderful. But if they don't, they can also hurt you, because if they're kind of rude or short or not being really a relationship builder themselves, the tone you show up, but the tone is already set, you're already up against it, right? Yeah, so that's kind of when it starts, but physically, you know, I always tell them, you know, you have one chance to make a first impression, right? So when you get to the house, drive around neighborhood, see what's going on in neighborhood, right? That's really key. If anybody's got new windows or doors or siding, or if they what types of homes they have, yeah, and kind of make recommendations, or at least put that in the back of your brain. That's gonna come in handy later. But of course, be on time, right? First impressions, knock on the door. You know, when you walk up to the door make you're paying attention to things you're you know, you might see a bumper sticker or something. They're golf clubs in their side of their house, or whatever. You're gonna see, something you can connect with, right? Yeah, and then it's just a matter of being likable. I know this sounds basic, so many people, they show up late. What are the things that really piss you off about people? Right? Yeah, they smell like cigarettes. They're late. Eat their shirts not tucked into wearing a ball cap backwards. They got their earring hanging off, you know? And all these things that people in their subconscious, they're not going to say, oh, but they're in their mind. They're already, already one step out the door, yeah? So those are the things you really got to pay attention to.

Dennis Ayotte 10:16
Yeah. Those are great tips. I never heard anybody talking about taking a lap through the neighborhood, just to kind of get it, and then just being really honed in as you're walking up to the house, like you said, looking at the bumper sticker. They got a yard sign out there for their kids. That's in high school.

Rob McCann 10:30
They got American flag hanging up, and they got two Purple Hearts in their bumper sticker. Yeah, you know, an Air Force thing, you know, man, your button.

Aaron Watters 10:37
Hat off. Take the button. Yeah. I mean, it's something that I hate, like, look, canvassing is necessary, especially in roofing. I have the best out in my home. My wife loves it because I hate when canvassers come to the house, but yeah, it's always Hey. I've got, actually, marketing for window world, somehow not interested in Windows and or I do it for pest control, whatever I hate the Yeah, well, I was talking to Josie and Sue down the road, and we just did their windows, and they told me I should come over Josie and Sue. Are you talking about? You think I talked to my neighbors? Yeah, but I don't know. Is that? Is that a common thing? How many times have you gone with canvassing? Oh, yeah, and that's something the

Rob McCann 11:19
alarm, alarm guys, pest control, or, you know, roofers, yeah, yeah. I just had my roof replaced three weeks ago, and I've had several people, you know, we hailstorm back, like in July or June. I've had a half dozen people come by. But a couple months ago, this girl came by, and the way she approached me, allowed me to talk to her. I just intrigued me. I want to, I want to talk to her more about she wasn't pushy at all. She's like, you know, she made a comment, you know, didn't tell me who she was. Like, you know, your roof has low damage on the side of that. If you knew that or not,

Dennis Ayotte 11:53
really, the whole indifference, yeah, and she

Rob McCann 11:56
just built her started a conversation. Well, you know, a month later, on your roof.

Dennis Ayotte 12:01
So, so she sold you a new roof? Yeah, and I'm a sucker. I'm the

Rob McCann 12:05
easiest guy to sell to. You're a late end buyer. Yeah, I'm people not have to wear I'm running to the door. My wife's running out the back door. I'm running to the front door.

Dennis Ayotte 12:13
But as, like, such a seasoned salesperson, like, are you trying to be respectful and back off and not kind of assert some of that, even though it's inside of you. Or, yeah, do you kind of give them a little bit of run for their money?

Rob McCann 12:26
I let them run, okay? And I even I give them feedback after, if I sat her down to give some feedback, because she almost blew the sale, and she got her boss come in, because she was pretty new, yeah, and we were signing up and everything. And she gave me too many options. She started talking to my wife and gave me, like, a third option on colors and stuff, yeah. So we got what we're all ready to sign. We almost said, Well, wait a minute, let's look at Yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 12:49
So anyway, yeah, what do they say? Always, always be closings, yeah, once you have it in. I did a internship way back in the day, and they taught us some different, you know, sales tactics. The one you brought up, Aaron, is that they would teach us the Jones effect. So when you would talk to the neighbors, you try to tell them, Oh yeah, Susie down the road, got this. And, you know, John over here. And so like trying to play off of, like, the whole we want what they have, type of deal. But what you just mentioned, they also taught us, like the indifference thing, to be like, hey, like, I don't know if you want this or not, but just thought I'd let you know, kind of thing. And it's interesting, from a psychology perspective, how that stuff can disarm you and make you feel like, okay, she's not really trying to, you know, sell me in reality, but so you coached her up at the end and just said, Hey, once you have the sale, just stop there. Yeah, kind of like stop when you're ahead.

Rob McCann 13:43
Her boss is just smiling. He knew too. Okay, very good.

Aaron Watters 13:47
Well, that's awesome. I think a seasoned or somebody that the likability factor that you talk about, I think that matters across the across the board, right? Because whether you're using the indifference or the Jones effect, if you will, or, Hey, I'm the Alpha sale seller in the room, which I get instagram reels all the time that I hate I need to delete the app. But it's Andy Elliot, the Andy Elliot stuff like, but, but I think whatever tactics, it's more about, like, some people have it, like the aura, the salesmanship, if you will. And it can come off as BS sometimes, but when it's authentic, that's really where I get sold. And so I think talking about maybe the two different types of buyers, right? You've got the emotional and the logical buyers. Like, how quickly can you pick somebody up like that whenever you're going into the home? Is that something you're constantly

Rob McCann 14:39
Yeah, and that just comes with gray hair and experience. You can tell right away who's especially, it's a couple, who's the emotional, who's the or if they're both the same, you know, if they're standoffish, you know, but you got to identify that right away. But, yeah, it's so much more of a psychological game now than it was, you know, back in the day, it was like, here's my product. Here's why we're better, you know. And you know, if they say this, you say this, if they say this, you say this, right? And it's just so you slam them into a corner, and you you almost trap them. And now people are so much more wise, you know. Oh, this thing called the internet, man, you know. And they're, they're about seven, we know. They're about 70% already sold by time you get there. So it's just a matter of you not making them mad or connecting with them the right way, right and being genuine with them. Because if you're if you're fake with them, man, if the minute you do that, you cross that line, you're done. I think I'm gonna think about it, somebody the quote. I'm gonna get some of the quotes, you know, so you can't, you got to be sincere and genuine. But that takes work. It takes work identifying that right? Yeah, it

Aaron Watters 15:44
does, and it almost feels and I think on the other side where the consumer has more information than ever before. I do think that our contractors and our comfort advisors and salesmen have more info on the customer than ever before. So you can pull household income, you can pull, you know, marital status, you can pull a lot of demographic data, but also you get a recorded call from the call center, you start to pick up on some things there. Have you utilized or learned about, like Rilla and some of these other tools out there?

Rob McCann 16:13
For sure? Yeah, I know winter world. A lot of winter worlds are using arela Right now, and they're having some pretty good success with it, for sure. But you know, and the biggest communication study ever done, 55% communication is is nonverbal. So you're only hearing the verbals. You're not seeing the reason why they said what they said, or when they said it. What were they doing physically? Because body language, which I teach a little bit of that as well, kinesics, it's huge, right? Because if, if they're not synchronizing. What they're saying, right is not matching up to what their body language is doing. What the default always goes to is what the body language is saying. It's actually five times more. That's why women student intuition. Women are really good at reading by language. That's why guys have a hard time. I went at the bar last night. No, I really wasn't in there, like, looking, you know that they pick right up on that, and they know, yeah,

Dennis Ayotte 17:05
so it's interesting. So as you built out, you know, sales teams, you know, across your career, what are some of the you know, keys to look at when you're, you know, building, you know, those teams, and what are some of the processes you know that you've seen really kind of move the needle in terms of just revenue and success.

Rob McCann 17:26
Yeah, good question, because a bad hire is going to cost you really it, not only in just their lack of production, but it's a contaminant amongst the team, right? So I kind of pride of myself on just building solid teams. Interestingly, all different personalities. You've got the bubbly, you know, blah blah, blah, blah, blah type A personality. You got the guy who's like, like a librarian, almost, right? Yeah, I hired one of the guys I hired and trained was a installer, and he had the personality of this paper. He goes, I hate salespeople. That was his personality. Yeah, he became one of the best guys I ever had, yeah, because he was such a genuine person. Yeah, he knew how to connect with people, yeah, but, but hiring that there is a process, right? So I look for, I look for everybody. I don't, I don't discard somebody just because they're quiet or loud or whatever, right? Because they could be if they have the ability to connect people and they love what they're doing and they're passionate and they're coachable, trainable. I'm going to be a team player. Yeah, I'll work with that person. I'll make them successful. Yeah? And that's the key, right? Because we, we can be great in sales, but we can't go out and sell $20 million in sales, right? We got to do it through a team. Yeah? So that's what I talk to these owners, is like, who's hiring? How are they training? You know, are you doing a personality profile? Yeah, or they do it before they even we hire them. Hey, let's go do a ride along with somebody. See if you would like this job. You can do it. I've had people come back from the right along and say, I can't do it, not for me, right? So do that? Do do interviews, do do ask a lot of questions. Have somebody else interview and get a different perspective, not just for you. See what they're what they think, get your thoughts, and then it's just matter of, you know, giving them tools. When you do hire them and train them, yeah, you know, worst thing to do is hire somebody and not really train them, and then they could be the best person ever. But if you're not investing in that person, right, they're gonna say, Ah, it's not for me, you might lose them, yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 19:18
How did you make those tough, you know, decisions? Because, you know, we've always talked about, like, water where the grass is green, and, you know, there's studies about, you know, you know, in leadership, you tend to, like, focus on the low performers and put all your energy there. And then meanwhile, your high performers are suffering because they're no longer getting, like, the attention and training. And so how would you, you know, approach those situations, and ultimately, have to make the tough decision to say, okay, this person is not working out. Yeah, yeah.

Rob McCann 19:49
Typically, you'll you'll know pretty soon, within 90 days, you're gonna know somebody's really gonna make it or not. Yeah, you know, but you're not gonna know that if you don't give them the correct time and energy into their their training. Yeah. But you made a great point, because sometimes, so many times the top performers, you know, they get kind of left behind, yeah? And I always made sure I was challenging my top guys as well, yeah, because you don't want them to kind of say, ah, you know, this is not very motivating, and I'm not getting feedback and that kind of thing, so, but I think overall, you just got to have a daily you got to be there daily, right? It's like Coach Poppi say pound that rock daily. Yeah, you got to show up daily and be on your game and pay attention, right? Do check up for the neck ups to these people at least once a month, yeah? Just do it once a year and get it fine tune where they're at, you know, and then communicate effectively. So we always had group text, group emails, something's going on. We share stories right away, and we get advice. You know, what's going working for you, what's not, and that kind of thing. So communication is, I think, huge,

Dennis Ayotte 20:52
okay, I think in sales and correct me if I'm wrong, like, there's the luxury of seeing the numbers like black and white. You're either hitting your, you know, metrics, or your quotas, you're not, you know. So I'm sure that was part of it. But you know, what else would you look at that was like, not the tangible part, right? Because, you know, you could have somebody who's hitting their metrics, but they're just still not, you know, a great, you know, part of the team. What are some of those things you you would look at as well?

Rob McCann 21:19
Well, the KPIs, right? Yeah, we always measure those. Like you said, black and white. They're missing. You're hitting them. You're not right? But if you're not hitting them, there's usually a reason. Sometimes there's a lot of reason, right? And that's, that's when you got to know your people. Like, if I asked a sales manager like and go and talk to an owner right now and talk to their sales manager, tell me about your top guy, he should be able to tell me what motivates them, how long he's been there, his successes, his failures, what, when he's not doing well? Why? Yeah, and talking about your low performing guy. And so a lot of times they can't, yeah, so they don't really know him. You got to know your people really well. Gotcha, you know, that's, I think it's huge.

Dennis Ayotte 21:57
And you kind of alluded it to it earlier, about like, personality tests. Do you do any sort of that? Or did you incorporate any of that during your time of building sales teams?

Rob McCann 22:06
We did not, not so much at window world, but prior companies we did.

Dennis Ayotte 22:11
Did y'all do like disc? Or, yeah, we've done a disc. Yeah, that's the old we do. We do culture index here. Okay? And it really helps inform us on kind of baseline, you know, personality traits and that sort of stuff. But you know, one thing that I used to struggle with is, you know, I tend to gravitate towards a certain personality and somebody, but as you mentioned, like you would have people that are bubbly, and then you'd have, like, the librarian type. And it took me a while to figure out like people emote differently, right? Just because you're quiet doesn't mean you're motivated and you can be a killer, that's right? And just because you're bubbly and, you know, outgoing doesn't mean you're competent, and, you know, great point. And so, you know, as we're building leaders within the organization, you know, that's one thing I'm trying to remind them of, is like, hey, everybody's different. You're not going to have the same type of person on your team every single time. And that's like the challenge in in leadership. So what got you to that point to really be able to, like, understand, okay, I have to be really objective when I'm evaluating, especially salespeople, because I think there's maybe a perception of like, oh, to be a salesperson, you got to be super talkative and bubbly and kind of have a BS angle to you. Yeah?

Rob McCann 23:27
Well, I think that's the old Glengarry, you know, that's the old school. ABC always be closing loud, obnoxious, you know, that's the old school. But like I said, today's customer is different, right? And covid really changed a lot of that. So with all the research they're doing now and all the they're looking at reviews and talking to people and doing research and reading books, so it's almost a down thing when you have somebody come in and just wants to be that bubbly, talkative type A, you know, never shut up. I've seen that backfire so many times. God, leave it to these. One of these for a reason, man,

Dennis Ayotte 24:02
Aaron does not respond well to those types of sales guys. I learned

Rob McCann 24:07
it's true. You're reflective. A lot of people out there, yeah, it's like, oh my god, that you're in your mind. You're subconscious. You're already thinking, nope, yeah, yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 24:16
The best way to sell Aaron is to not sell them, yeah, and not share. One time, we were on a call with these guys, and the guy refused to show Aaron this, like, the product, really, yeah, like, just at the last minute. He's like, actually, no, I'm not gonna, like, share it with you guys. It's not the right time. And after that, we got off the phone, Aaron was like, dude, now I'm sold. Like, I gotta like that, what this is so it was, it was interesting. But, yeah, different people respond in different

Aaron Watters 24:45
Yeah, yeah, I was, I was out, like, typically on that because, I mean, they're talking about this high technology blog link building thing that I felt was spam through the ears and the whole time. And then now he's like, Well, I really don't feel like I can't. Share it with you. We're like, Okay, well, now I want to pay for it just to see it so I can be right about the fact that it's all BS, like, that's that. I want to do that, that it's funny,

Rob McCann 25:11
yeah, and that's, that's one of the things you have to identify what type personnel you're dealing with as a customer and how to sell to them, right? You're talking to an engineer. You don't want to show him all the bells and whistles until, you know he knows the numbers. What's, what's the end result going to be? What's the data behind it? Yeah, you know. So that's, yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 25:30
So we talked a little bit about Rilla and kind of, you know, the this new age software in terms of, kind of the AI ride along. But can you share just some stories of ride alongs that you've been on before, maybe the good, the bad, the ugly, and kind of, you know, the value and still having, like an actual human, you know, conduct those,

Rob McCann 25:51
yeah, you know, as a sales manager, as a regional, I was a regional with, with window world as well for a couple years. So I had a region of seven states, and I'd go to go out to Little Rock or Memphis, spend the week there. And we did a lot of cool stuff. I mean, looking at financials, look at their marketing, look at their their CRM, right? And then look at their sales, attend a sales meeting, doing right along so it was, it was a really cool job, and that's the part I liked most. We just doing ride alongs and doing sales training, right? Yeah, because you saw a lot of different things, man, you know, Yeah, crazy. It's funny, because everywhere you go, every market, they say the same thing, no matter where you're at. Now, customers in my market, you know, they're not gonna they can't afford anything, or they don't finance or whatever the thing is, right? They don't talk to you, yeah? They all say the same thing. People are people, yeah. But anyway, I can remember this one pretty funny story, interesting story, Oklahoma. I was gonna ride along, and we showed up, and they were doing a total remodel this home, everything from the roof to Foundation, right? And the lady was there, and design consultant was built in good rapport. He was doing pretty good. And got time to do the demo of the window, and did demo. She was really excited, right? Then her husband pulls up. He wasn't there, right? So it's a long legr, those are always tough, yeah. So I always tell people, I don't care if it's one leg, you still go for 100% right? Show them everything. Do your deal. And he shows up. I'm out in the front porch. He gets out of this car. He's in his gym towards gym bag. He's all buff, huge dude. And he's like, I could tell he's angry, just his body language, right? So you sell. He walks up, and he's like, you know, Jill, what are these guys doing here? You know? She's like, Oh, they're from window world. And he goes, Windows, we just spent $40,000 on this and that and this, we're not. He goes, guys, I'm sorry you pack your stuff up. Hit the road. You're gone. So we're like, Oh crap. So, you know, most people would like, Okay, well, let me reschedule whatever, right? So we just I, first thing I did is kind of tone it down. Said I understand serve totally. I'd be the same way my wife doing off and all this money, right? You're working out, just spending money. So I had to empathize with them. Calm down a little bit. So then we just started talking, right? And we walked around. I know you're not gonna buy anything today. 100% for sure. Let me just show you real quick what we were talking about, so that way you'll know in the future, right? Yeah. We walked around, showing the windows. He got him interested. Look. He said, Oh, that's pretty nice. But again, I'm not gonna buy anything. I understand. So we just kept slow. We just slowed down, right? That's the key, right? I tell a lot of salespeople, tell them all, slow down, stop going so fast, slow down and let ruminate, right? So walked around the back, and then I found out what she does for a living and what he does for a living. He just got a promotion. Works at Boeing, making killer money Oklahoma City, yeah, and she's one of the top Realtors in the city, so they're making, I knew that, right? They're making they can afford. It's no problem. Yeah, they're qualified. So anyway, I just got him kind of calmed down, and then I kind of showed him what she was really excited about. And then she jumped in. Said, I got to have this and this bay window over here, and this door and whatever. And so now he's, it's one thing. It'd be against us, yeah, now he's not going to, you know, go against her, right? So now I made it about them, and I said, Well, let me ask you, is she a pretty good sales person, real estate? Oh, she's the best in the city, right? You know, she could probably pay for this in one month sales. You know, I know you're not gonna buy anything. Let me, I kept saying it. Let me just show you the numbers if you in case you want to buy. So we did financing, right? Because they just spent all their money. They had no cash, their cash poor. So I showed them the financing options at, like, a, like a long term financing option at, you know, 1.99% or whatever it was, the payment factor. And he was like, that's all, yeah, so that. So I know you're not gonna buy anything again, but you'll have that. Let me just show you the window real quick. I'm interested in the product, right? Did a great demo, and then 30 minutes later, he walked out of the contract. Nice. So this guy initially showed wants to beat us up. Basically, he was all pissed off. And. To that level, you know? So that was kind of one story. It was interesting. That sales

Aaron Watters 30:03
guy now has a story that, oh yeah, he loved

Rob McCann 30:06
he was like, wow, I thought we were gonna get out of here. Just keep talking. Slow down. Show him the value, establish some kind of connection, right? And he was almost high fiving us when

Dennis Ayotte 30:18
we left. That's awesome. So, yeah, do you slowed it down.

Rob McCann 30:21
Slowed it down. Build rapport. Connected with him, got his wife involved right? Got to be between them and each other talking about what they could afford, but they couldn't afford. We're just sitting there eating popcorn, watching them talk.

Aaron Watters 30:33
Yeah, I think what that really also says that that strikes a nerve with me. Record, probably a better way of saying it, we here too in the call center, people abandon the lead too quick, or they, okay, yeah, you called. We can't get out there today, and they're about to go, you know, HVAC, specifically, they're gonna go call somebody else and, okay, have a great day. Well, we didn't get their email. We didn't get their address. We didn't get really anything for a follow up sequence, and so you lose out on that opportunity to say, hey, well, we've got an overflow list. If we do clear up today, I'd hate for you to go with somebody else that isn't going to treat your home the way we would. I'm going to put you on our overflow list and see what I can do, at least that gets them in your CRM for future marketing. But I think that the abandoning of a sale, if you're thinking about it, just from I'm trying to close the deals perspective, not this is a in the long run, I'm representing the brand, getting this person into our platform so we can remarket to them. That happens throughout the entire organization a lot of times. And I think that's interesting there. I'm curious too. We talked a little bit about slump. If you ever had a sales person that you've seen that had a slump and worked their way back out of it totally all the time?

Rob McCann 31:50
Yeah, I call it sophomore slump. Okay, so we hire somebody. We train them. They they take our word is gospel, my word. They're like, go do it. And also they just start taking off. They're good for 30 days, 45 days. Then all sudden, numbers start dipping. What happened? I bring them in. What happened? Talk to me. Give me a demo, give me your sales pitch. And you know, happens every time they start cutting like, Who told you to say that? I didn't train to say that? Or you're just missed out. You didn't even talk about set the agenda or set expectations, or there's something you missed in the process. Because what happens is they get real confident, cocky. I'm good at this. I'm a natural. They start doing it, taking shortcuts, and they just dip every time. Usually happens second month, maybe third month. We'll reel them in, come back and say, Tell me to show me your script. What are you doing? Yeah, Mitch, I just start taking that happens quite a bit. Yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 32:41
Well, that's a great point. I think when, when you see performance potentially dip anywhere, is kind of going back and like, okay, let's let's reset. Let's hear it. Let's hear the fundamentals you got going on. Because you're exactly right. I think people get very complacent and comfortable, and you might go through a sprint where you're just closing everybody, because you maybe just be hitting a bunch of lay down buyers. So I love that to be able to just to say, hey, run me through it again. Let me, you know, hear it all, and then you can identify where the gaps

Rob McCann 33:16
are, yeah, or get in the car and go with them. See him in a natural habitat, watch him, like,

Dennis Ayotte 33:22
how would you, how would you combat that? Because I've heard, like, once you, you know, get in the car with them, then it's like, they kind of change, right? Because they know, like, the principles there to kind of watch them type of thing, yeah, you know. So how would you try to disarm them and and get them to show like, their natural self?

Rob McCann 33:39
Well, if it's me visiting a store and I was I'm from corporate, yeah, much more that's happening. Yeah, they freeze and they stiffen up. They're not themselves at all. It's very canned, right? Yeah, yeah. But if it's somebody I'm working with my team, yeah, they're. They know the motive for me doing this is pure, it's good, it's for their betterment. So they're gonna trust me, and you gotta, that's why you have that trust. Yeah, I'm not there to get them in trouble or critique them. Critique them, but not in a bad way. Always instruct. I'm a positive coach, right? So ABC, my ABC is always be coaching. Nice. What I do? Okay? So, because you know, and then you show them, and then you help them out. If I've jumped in several times, I do that a lot. If they're just not on track at all. They're going way off track. I'll bring it back. I think the customers want is asking more about this and get them back on track. You know, not jump in too much, but just enough to kind of get them back on track, right?

Dennis Ayotte 34:32
So while you're in there, live just trying to help them.

Aaron Watters 34:37
Overall, you don't hop in the truck and say, Man, you're sales managers, immediate rapport. They're gonna open up and talk to you. That's not a tactic. Backfire, yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 34:49
How do you do that then, like, how do you build rapport quickly with, like, you know the team, if they don't know you,

Rob McCann 34:54
if they're not my team, yeah? Yeah, I just tell them, Listen, I'm not here to to get. Get you in trouble. I'm here to help the better, betterment of you and your future. I really want you to make more money, and I want you to be better. What you do, yeah? And just, you know, give them some examples of when I was selling and kind of connect with them, you know, yeah. And we're all human. We all bad days, good days, right? Yeah, someone's in a slump. A lot of times, it's because they had some, you know, they're fighting with their wife, or what? You never know what's going on their personal life? Yeah, you know, or they're not comfortable with a product, or there's something there, you just gotta dig and, you know, it's like your sales call to them, right? Yeah, gotta ask them questions and find out what's going on. Yeah.

Dennis Ayotte 35:33
Do you have any stories of where you've gone out and helped somebody and it totally changed the game for them, and they reach out to you, and they're like, Rob, thank you so much.

Rob McCann 35:42
I can think of one recent one, probably well, eight months ago, and it happened, but I was up in where was that Little Rock Arkansas, and young sales guy, he was, he looked young, and a funny story, you know, doing right along with him. He, every time he started talking about price, he would talk, his voice would go, like, like a little 12 year old kid or something that was so weird. Like, don't play poker, because you're gonna give it away. But anyway, I just Yeah. So we went on sales call, and there it was really weird, because they said same thing up front. Now, we're not buying today. Make sure you email me the quote later today. And I was just like, Oh, no problem. No problem at all. We can do that. I just kind of acknowledge it, but keep going right? Oh, no problem. And just keep going anyway. And then we just made some really good reports. I might start talking to him about life, and they had lost their daughter a year before. And so we started talking about that. I lost my brother about same age, and, you know, built that connection. And that's really what sales is. It's a getting on the other side of the table. So we're sitting together, versus head to head. And anyway, so it was really smooth. It went really well. We ended up selling it, you know. And at the way home, he was like, man, he just kept going, Man, I can't believe I was so smooth, like, like, like, I was doing some kind of voodoo. It was just connecting, you know? Yeah, it's like, building a house, right? Yeah. So I always say, like, the foundation is your connectivity, right? That's your rapport, likeability. Factors. Likeability is the gateway to rapport, true rapport, right? That's the foundation. You can't you can't put a structure if you want Foundation, right? Yeah, so the framing goes up next, and that's asking good questions, listening and uncovering stuff. You have to answer their questions, uncover their needs and wants and address their fears and uncertainty and doubt in today's world. That's huge, right? Because when you people hear that at the end of the sales call, it's going to be, I want to get other quotes. I want to think about it. Talk to my wife. We think of those as what objections? Yeah, those are not objections. Those are smoke screens. Those are stalls. There's something behind that. You got to get to that level, and usually in today's environment. And remodeling business studies have shown I've seen it on qualified remodeler. Remember 550 Good Housekeeping, all these servers they do, which are great surveys. The number one fear they have, you screw up my house. You're gonna have to do it to come out two or three times. I'm gonna have to call you. You're gonna you're gonna break something. So what they do a lot of times is, well, I'm just gonna think about it. What they're really telling you is they're going to stay what they have. They're not going to do anything. And I used to, I used to do Mark dad as a sales manager, I know with a demo, no sale. Yeah, I'd mark that address my little book, old school, write it down, and I go back by that property six months later. Guess what? Same old siding, same old doors. They never move forward. So you gotta dress that. So that's the that's the structure, and then the roof is be a subject matter expert. If you're not a subject matter expert, they're not gonna trust you. They gotta trust you, right? So that's kind of the found the visual effect of, yeah, the foundation, you know, the framing, and then the roof, yeah, is that how you teach it? Yeah, I do visuals, right? That? Yeah. And then you have your electric and water coming in the house, right, which is your trial closes and tie downs and, you know, that kind of thing. So and reading body language all that matters,

Dennis Ayotte 39:11
yeah, that's awesome. You've mentioned a couple times of being, you know, more likable. What are some things that you try to, you know, share with people so they can be more likable.

Aaron Watters 39:22
Yeah, he's asking for me. Yeah,

Rob McCann 39:28
it's how to be likable. 90 minutes or less,

Aaron Watters 39:32
90 seconds or less, three copies, yes,

Rob McCann 39:36
yes, and forgot the guy's name. Wrote a great book. I share. I have my PowerPoint. I share people because it does matter, right? And think of the Think of your friends. What do you like about them? People you're not really like so much. What do you don't like about them? It's the same thing human interaction, right? So if you're not likable, so what are the things that piss you off about people? Right? They interrupt you, they talk too much, they lie, they over talk. You. They're not listening to you. You asked me yes question they get. They answer the whole question totally differently than the question call for, you know, so things like that, you know, they're they're rude. They, you know what? When the reverse side of that coin is, what do you like about people? Right? So I love it when people, sales, people come to my house and they take off their hat, or they they offer to put on booties when they're walking your

Dennis Ayotte 40:23
house, yeah? Little things like that matter. They're signaling that they thought,

Rob McCann 40:27
yeah, they compliment you, right? They're nice. They smile at you. They're listening. You know, it's just basic human interaction, yeah, yeah.

Aaron Watters 40:35
That's even for us at Leadhub. Something I talked to the team about is, like, if I get into a client meeting, I've got to bring one AHA like there's always one aha moment or something that, yeah, I can read through the analytics report, but I want to try to bring something to the table that they are not thinking about or didn't know about their brand or their sales process. And I think not only are we as a marketing agency paid to bring the leads, there's an opportunity to really showcase we can do more than that. And it could be little things like, you know, the Instagram hashtags shouldn't be used in this post. It could be like, did you know that you're striking 15% closing rate in this zip code over here, but you're spending a lot of money on radio? Oh, hadn't looked at it from that perspective, so interesting. I mean, people sometimes love to be educated about stuff that they don't know. Other people, it can be friction based. And, you know, they want to, they want to know it all.

Rob McCann 41:31
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, even as a sales rep going to a home, I've had my guys just even didn't get the sale. They're going to caulk a window or fix a door or do something for the homeowner while they're there. I've changed out light bulbs, whatever. Yeah, you know, just add value. Yeah? Makes you more likable. I like this guy, yeah, because people buy from emotion, right? They'll justifiable logic, but they're gonna buy based on their emotion. Right by the car, oh, man, it was a cherry car. Goes on at 30. I love this makes me look good, right? Yeah, I'm on the beach all the chicks looking at me, and then they'll justify your wife later, right? Oh, look at the gas mileage. It's very safe, you know? Yeah, so that's how people buy and it's those little things that you're making deposits in there, right, right? I like this guy, and the proof is, when I as regional, with window world, I'd go at a ride alongs. I would after the ride along was over, I'd go to an install that you're finishing up. I always want to talk to the homeowner, yeah, get them aside. Say, Hey, I know you got a lot of choices. Can you tell me why you bought? Why did you Why us? Not somebody else? They have nothing to lose this point, right? They've already bought. Yeah? Probably installer. Yeah. I wouldn't go to that installed with a nice one. But almost every time, they never said, Wow. Your your door frame was stronger, your spacer system and window was better. Every time it was, you know what? Man got guy, Aaron, he just was so patient with me. I liked him. It's all about the people. Wow. Every time that's

Dennis Ayotte 43:01
awesome, very cool. Well, what we want to do next, Rob, we want to go through an objection sprint. But instead of an objection, would you call it earlier, like it's a stall or smoke screen, a smoke screen or a stall? So maybe we'll call it a stall sprint. So some common objections here. And want to get your take on how you you overcome? Yeah, so you're, you're in the home, you're gonna, you're trying to sell me some windows, and I'm gonna say, Well, Rob, I want to get, you know, two other quotes, what's your How do you handle that?

Aaron Watters 43:36
And we can even personalize it, because I have a two year old quote, window world TX for my windows. So I need to, wow, hey, we did the siding. We didn't do the windows, I know, but Mama's gonna want them so I can guinea pig in. But we,

Rob McCann 43:52
I think we have one for that. So okay, so we can go down that road and do that, yeah, but once somebody says that they either verbally or write it down and say I'm not or send me another quote, or I need to think about it, it's hard to overcome that. It really is now you can do the whole thing of what was your What was your question?

Dennis Ayotte 44:15
So I need, I want to get two more quotes instead of yours. Okay, yeah.

Rob McCann 44:20
So that tells me, if you're saying that I didn't do my job up front. I didn't because when I when I do my questionnaire, one of the questions I'm going to ask, I'm going to go into this whole thing about, you know, I'm going to find out how many quotes you've gotten. What have you done so far? We've done the past. How long you think about doing this? Right? So if they say, oh, usually it's never like last week, it's always like, my wife's been banging on me for three years to fix that. Yeah, that window replaced, right? Yeah. So then I say, three years. What's taking you so long? Why haven't you got replaced? They'll tell you, right? Then, a lot of information, right? Well, I had some guy come out and they quoted me, you know, $20,000 for six windows. US. So there they just think they can't afford it, right? So it's a price deal. That's their real concern. So, and I'll tell them, basically, listen, if we can replace this and make it affordable, is there any reason why you wouldn't want to do business with us right now, today and later? If they're going to say they want to get our quotes, you know? Or I'll say something like, is this when the shopping stops, right? If I can, if I can, make it affordable within your budget, yeah, and show you the value and how we aren't well, you we are the best company out there for windows or doors with this one to shop and stops, they'll say, Yeah, I think so. So later they're telling me that. 20 minutes later, I want to have two other quotes. That's when I'll say, use their words against them, and say, yeah. Well, wait a minute, I'm a little confused, because earlier you said this and this, now you're saying you want to get her quotes. Makes me feel like we're not the right company for you. Is that true? Yeah, because you've already traveled close them the whole way, and you're saying, yes, yes, yes, I love you. I love you. I love you. And now they're saying they want to get quotes. Yeah, what is it really got? Is there something you're thinking they can do that we can't do? What is what would that be?

Dennis Ayotte 46:00
You think? Okay, so then, so then they tell you the next one. They're like, well, actually, Rob, I just, I really got to talk to my wife about it.

Rob McCann 46:08
That's a tough one to overcome. The one leggers. We all know sales was a tough Yeah, right. So those are the hardest ones, the guy by themselves, the one legged guy, if you were the one legged woman, yeah, a lot easier, because we as guys know if the woman calls us and say hey, says, Hey, I'm here with Rob. He's got a great window. I love the window. I love the color, I love the price. What do you think, honey? What's he gonna say if he's smarter? Yeah, whatever you think. I trust you. You're smart. You know what you want, because we all know who makes decisions usually, right? Yeah, the home, it's the queen of the home, right? So those are a lot easier, right? If it's a guy, he's afraid to make a decision, right? Oh, man, so, but even still, though, well, I mean, you can still things, try things like, Well, why don't we just get her on the phone real quick, just to see what she what's important to her? Yeah, you don't want to make a mistake, right? Aaron, yeah, let's go. Let's get on a Zoom meeting, zoom, but a FaceTime call and show her the window too. She thinks, because if you can do that, then now your chances go way up. Because now she's saying, well, it looks good to me, Honey, what are you thinking? Yeah, you know, you just back off say, Hey, let me grab something out of the car. You guys need to talk about this, the old porch light. Walk away clothes. Oh yeah, no, talking to come back in. The guy's like, well, she said it's okay. So, so my whole point of that is those, those are kind of smoke screen stalls, right? So if you're doing your work up front, that's why I teach people do the work up front and you're gonna get less of those. You're still gonna get them, yeah, but if I can get you one more out of the tent for the week, and you can make an extra 20, $30,000 a year, yeah, just by doing your work and asking the right questions. Yeah? So it's really eliminating or annihilating the the objection

Dennis Ayotte 47:58
before they even happen. Got you how do you go about that? If, like, how do you use your early questioning to get over like, the price objection? Like, I don't think, like, I can't afford it. It's more than we planned.

Rob McCann 48:10
Well, this takes work to do, and that's why I train my guys to say, to carry like, the cost versus value report. Okay? And do what's called price conditioning, right? So you tell them, right? I do it right. I hit them right with that right on my warm up. You know, how long you think about getting windows? Why I'm here, I have a list of questions or I'm already doing, and one of the questions is, I just kind of statement, I just slip it in. Or, you know, the average cost for high performance windows around $2,200 in this, this part of the country, you know, and I keep going, right, and we're business for X number of years now, they're thinking, Oh, wow, I didn't know that. And then I'll circle back and show them cost versus value. So I'm not some sleazy sales guy. I'm showing you this is, this is third party stuff, right? This is what it costs. So when I come in below that, they're, yeah, they're like, Wow, right?

Dennis Ayotte 48:58
So the psychology of price anchoring. We typically have done it to where it's backfired, like where we say, too low, and then we come in higher, and You shot yourself in the foot Exactly. But the idea of the other way we've been talking about our website pricing lately, and you know, we might, we might need to do some price conditioning around, yeah. You need to talk to our sales guys, yeah?

Rob McCann 49:22
Or you can do like, I call blocking an objection. So if you know that's going to be an objection, let's say you're Anderson windows, and you know your prices are high, yeah, good, great window, but they're high, yeah? So it's blocking objections. You bring it up yourself. It's risky, because you're bringing it up yourself. Let's say you had a bad review online. You know, it's there, right? People are probably seeing it. And you can say something like, you know, we've had a bad review recently. Maybe you've seen it, or you've seen a couple bad reviews. People have said they've seen a couple reviews. Yeah, let me so you bring it up, and then you say, Well, let me show you the rest of our reviews. You show them. Or if. I can show you that. In fact, we have actually a 4.9 rating, yeah, and most RVs are fantastic, and we follow up on any bad review we've ever gotten. Would that make a difference? Well, I think so. Then then you got to do the proof and show them whatever it is, and then you follow up and say, Now is that going to be an issue at all? Do you think? I guess not. It's not even just taking the sting out of that objection. It could be a bad review, or prices are kind of high. Let me show you our last five average contracts, whatever, and how we compare to the market. Yeah, really. Can you see now that we're not really that high? After all, we're in the middle, I guess so, boom. Now they're not saving that for the club over the head 30 minutes from now, right?

Dennis Ayotte 50:39
Yeah. At what point do you use those as qualifiers, you know, for people? So you can, because I've always also, you know, been taught is like, you know, time is money, and you know, if somebody can't afford it, or if they're just not interested, you know what? How do you determine that quickly so you're not in there wasting your time. You know, are you in the mindset of everybody's elite?

Rob McCann 51:05
Just, yeah, especially nowadays, when people lead you down. I think across the industry, yeah, everyone's valuable. I think you can't make that determination because I we've all thought it going on South Side San Antonio, and it's a 1200 square foot home. They want six windows. Yeah, they only have eight windows in the house. And you say eight windows, and they got a 20 year old car broken on a driveway. And, yeah, these people are for nothing. Don't prejudge it. Don't leave, man. You get in there and all sudden, other ones coming out with cash. Oh, yeah, you know, 4000 hours cash. Yeah, it's crazy.

Dennis Ayotte 51:39
So yeah, that whole Rich Dad, Poor Dad kind of thing, you know, I think there's like, a fallacy. Just because you have a nice car and you live in a home doesn't mean you got, you know, money, you know, you could just be living paycheck to paycheck. On the flip side, just because their house or their car looks like that, probably they've been saving all their money, you know, and they've been, you know, Wise. Yeah, I've never read that one, but yeah, so I think it's, you're exactly right, though. And that goes back to our early topic of, you know, not judging somebody just based on, you know, their personality and things like that. I think it's important, it's, it's hard for us to separate that. So how do you, how do you go about, like, training and teaching people to have that open mindset?

Rob McCann 52:28
Just give them like examples, like we just talked about gotcha, and just talk about, I mean, like in Dominion, for example, some of the worst people that already know money or hear that regularly, yeah, leverage, like you can believe they're maxed out in credit card debt, debt, income ratios are really high. They just they can't afford it, yeah? And they don't get approved for financing. They can be client Wow, that's embarrassing, yeah? So, yeah, you can't prejudge anything. You know, just like when we hire sales people, we don't prejudge them, you know, I hired all kinds, and it takes all types, right?

Dennis Ayotte 53:00
Yeah? So in terms of, you know, I think you hit it on the head like leads are becoming harder and harder to come by, just because of the nature of the amount of competition, you know, in the market, especially, you know, an exterior remodeling and I think especially in a space where you don't necessarily need a license, you know, through the state. We we call them like, you know, chuck in a truck. You got these guys that come in and can kind of undercut pricing. So, you know, for, you know, from what you've seen, you know, what do you think some areas are to be more efficient, or to venture potentially, like, stop any, any sort of leakage, you know, from a business perspective,

Rob McCann 53:41
from like, preventing people our leads to go to them basically,

Dennis Ayotte 53:45
well, making sure that they're, like, maximizing all the leads and like, how can you be more efficient with less,

Rob McCann 53:52
I guess? Okay, yeah. Well, you know, this is kind of a Be Back Business first, first time closing percents on a good day is 20, 25% really. So if you look at all the be backs, now, you're looking at 50% incorporate all those second chances. That's it's a be back business. At least it was with wonder. Boy. I know some companies out there. It's a one time close. And after that, if you don't get it, they're dead, right? Got you leave. Go on to the next one. But as I said. I mean, I think these days are a little different than they were when leads were abundant during covid. It was there were leads are everywhere, right? Yeah, shooting fish in a barrel, right? Lay downs all over the place. But now I think people are taking stock. If they don't buy you've got to put them on use your CRM effectively, right? And and put them on a callback list, rehash campaign or whatever, because there's a lot of people that just won't make a decision today. They just, you can do all the tricks you want to do, but they just really have to think about or pray about it, whatever that that's them. Yeah. Then the more you respect that decision and then follow up appropriately, like you say you're gonna do it. Yeah. Well, a lot of times they'll go with you. Never talk bad about other companies, right? That's the rule, right? People who do that, they're losing

Aaron Watters 55:08
for sure. And do you ever recommend referring out like, Hey, I hear you need two other quotes here. Here's what company A, B and C, here's typically what they're going to say, but they're who I see the most in this area. Yeah.

Rob McCann 55:21
I know my price point. I know exactly what they're doing. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Tell me they got a good window, which they do, or good door, whatever side, you know, call these guys get in our quote. But you know, it's that's could be a double edged sword, because people are still buying product that's really expensive. Yeah? You know, we know by surveys, the price is always like number five or

Dennis Ayotte 55:51
six on the list. Really, what are usually, what usually ranks above price.

Rob McCann 55:56
It's trustworthiness, okay, knowing what you're doing, right? Yeah, reliable. Yeah, communication throughout the process is huge. They want to be communicated

Dennis Ayotte 56:04
with. Yeah, that's my wife. 100%

Rob McCann 56:06
Absolutely. You say they're going to be there a certain time. You got a certain time.

Dennis Ayotte 56:10
Oh, yeah. And if you set the expectation, you better, you better meet it.

Rob McCann 56:14
Yeah. So there's things like that, okay? Dependability, communication, trustworthiness, professionalism, knowing, doing, knowing what you're doing is right for the customer prices and that, of course, the person themselves is number one. Right, intentionality, connectability, price is always down there.

Dennis Ayotte 56:34
So interesting. Yeah, yeah, I've gotten better about the mantra of just kind of buy once, cry once, you know. And so I'm not always looking for the cheapest thing, and, you know, obviously not always looking for the most expensive thing, but, you know, I'm willing to, you know, find something to where, like you said, I'm going to trust the company to, you know, deliver on, on what they said they did. So makes a ton of sense

Rob McCann 57:02
of doctor visit last week my doctor, we were talking, and he's really animated. You know? He's from South America, yeah, he's like, I don't care if I don't like these people or not, I just want to trust them. I gotta trust them. I don't trust them. No business, you know. So that's why people feel that way. Yeah, have to trust you.

Aaron Watters 57:20
It's interesting, like, I think we've, we're talking the other day with Ryan and some other guys here, of like, when you have a sales call having a follow up sequence, and I know a lot of people have a different rhythm of this, but, but I don't hear our clients often call back to hear how the sales consultant did, and grading like an NPS score of great. So how did you feel you trusted Rob while he was out there looking at your home? How did he display our product? You know, I know you guys haven't closed with us yet. Just, we just want to know or we love Rob. He's been with us for 10 years, but we always want to stay on our a game any feedback you can give us like that's also a nice move internally to help your sales team, but also externally, the customers then going to be thinking, okay, they're going to be back,

Rob McCann 58:09
yeah, and they care enough about me to ask my opinion, right? Yeah. So we used to do that. I used to have callback Fridays. Anybody didn't sell anything, I'd bring the rep in and we would call his now non sales from Monday or Tuesday. Hey, Mrs. Smith, this is Rob McCann. I'm the manager here window world or whatever. And with your I'm sitting here with XYZ sales consultant, yeah, and I noticed that you didn't make that purchase on Tuesday. Was there any questions you had, or what could he have done better? He's typically a really great guy, and he does a lot of good business. And I showed the pictures of your house to our install team. They're really excited about it. You're like, I can help you walk through, maybe the financing to you or what? Talk to me. Just let me start talking. Yeah, I approached from a customer service standpoint, right? How do you do? Did he show you the window? Did he talk about the company, the product, all that? Yeah? So, yeah, that's pretty effective. Nice.

Dennis Ayotte 59:00
That's awesome. Well, Rob what you know, as people watch this, and you know, you've shared a ton of great knowledge today. So thank you so much. What is your ideal customer look like for your consultancy?

Rob McCann 59:13
So basically, my little tagline is, you know, I work with business owners increasing their top line revenue through proper sales training and coaching. So could be a small business guy, medium sized business guy. Maybe he's got no sales manager, or he's got a great sales manager, just wants to take it to a new level, or it doesn't have any design consultants or sales staff. And I can help train or hire them, help promote somebody from within, maybe interview with them. Yeah. So it could be a large company too, that just wants to, you know, grow their business and have a different perspective. So I kind of do basically three buckets, if you will. So I do sales training, which is designed for a classroom type of training, right? Three or four hour class with that. And then I do sales kind of mentoring with their sales leader, talking about how to identify. And train and develop a sales leader, because you need a sales leader. Yeah, to the next level. Keep doesn't happen by accident. And I do sales coaching. And sales coaching is the part that really moves the needle, because now you're talking doing, ride alongs, doing role playing, one on ones, check up on the neck, up, talking through what your goals are, what their strengths are, what their development needs? Are that kind of thing that was needed, you know, because people go to sales training all the time, and what do they do? They say, Oh, that's great. And the old forgetting curve, yeah, German psychologist, I forgot his name. That's one of my slides in the 1890s he developed a forgetting curve. So you did all this data, and basically 50% of all content is forgotten after 24 hours, 75% after one week, and 90% after one month. People go to sales training, and it's all great. Yeah, you all fired up, and you're learning all this stuff, and then it's a temporary spike right after 60 days, back to normal. So that's kind of what separates me from the rest of the guys. I think it's just real world experience and just the coaching part,

Dennis Ayotte 1:01:08
nice, we're what's the best way for people to get a hold of you or reach out

Rob McCann 1:01:13
to you? Yeah, my website, so McCann sales consulting. Calm link on there, and I get emails attached right to direct to me. Nice recording. Reach out by phone. Call me.

Dennis Ayotte 1:01:24
210-363-9916, nice, awesome. We'll make sure we put all that in the show notes. And if you got a calendar, they can book direct. We'll get all that stuff

Rob McCann 1:01:34
in there. If you're not losing Leadhub guys, hey, thank you. You're not getting leads. Doesn't matter, right? I mean, I can help close them, but we got to get them,

Dennis Ayotte 1:01:44
these guys, yeah, leads, yeah, oh, thank you for that. We appreciate

Rob McCann 1:01:47
it. Well, 10 years now,

Dennis Ayotte 1:01:50
so yeah, yeah, and it's been and, like I said, we just met with Martin yesterday and talked about his whole plan for 2026 so exciting. Got some big goals and things going on, and Lindsay's been doing an awesome job over there as well. We've gotten to work with her more and more. Yeah, so definitely sharp. We got some good stuff on the on the horizon. So excited for that. Well, awesome, Rob. Thank you so much for joining us. I mean, I learned a wealth of knowledge. I'm gonna go talk to our sales team for sure, but golf soon? Yeah, definitely, definitely got to get out there. So, yeah, no, I feel good. I'm ready to go so, and my wife's gonna be out of town in January, so I'm already like thinking about, okay, she's gonna be golf for four days. How many rounds can I pack in those four days?

Rob McCann 1:02:41
Closest thing I did to that was, this is about five years ago I was able to go to Pinehurst. Okay, nice. And we played like, four rounds in three days. Wow, that's cool. They've got nine courses. They just bought a new one. I think now get 10, okay, plus the par three thing called the cradle. That's like, unbelievable. So it's, the food is amazing. The hotel there is great. It's kind of like a little village the Pinehurst, yeah, like a Irish Pub, and they have just a brewery there, and some restaurants you can walk to. And it's, it's pretty cool

Dennis Ayotte 1:03:15
when you get that on the books. And that's our net, our next time we have you on the podcast. We'll do it on the golf course. Yeah, that'll be fun. Yeah, let's do it awesome. Well, thank you guys for watching this episode of Talk of the trades. We'll link all of Rob's contact information in the show notes, so be sure to check that out and always like subscribe. Share this. Thanks for watching, guys. You